Sorry, this is recording. It's just not coming up with the minutes or the seconds. So I'm just waiting for that to show. So I don't cut myself off. So obviously this part will have to be, but if you can watch it, it's taking forever. Come on. Okay, there we go. Hi there and welcome to the Stacey M Show. I am Stacey Munzenberger and the hot topic is dealing with a narcissist or I also refer to them as a toxic person. The word narcissist can be overused and it's actually something that's diagnosable by a doctor but the chances of a slim because I probably don't think that they have it so I'm using the word narcissist slash toxic I also have to apologize I started to film this and my next neighbor decided to mow his lawn so if you can hear a lawnmower in the background I do apologize now when I did last week's podcast it was a few different points in the one podcast and looking back on that it is probably difficult to try and implement something when I'm suggesting a few different things, even if it's like three points, like I think last week's was. And I was going to do the same again today, but this time I thought I would just really break it up and give you one tip that may work, that you might want to implement, or you might want to vary it. um I'll never tell you what you need to do what I really want to do is just provide tips for you to see whether that's something that you might be able to use so um Today, I'm introducing you to the Grey Rock Method, which is a method that can be used when you're dealing with somebody who is toxic slash narcissistic. So I'm probably going to use the word toxic. Actually, I'll probably use it interchangeably. So I'm either going to refer to it as a toxic person or a narcissistic person. Effectively, they're the same thing. um and it might just be something to help you along your journey whether you're going through a separation and you were dealing with a narcissistic lawyer your ex your ex's lawyer somebody in the workplace family member whatever so as I said this is called the grey rock method and as usual I'm looking off the side because I have my notes with me so uh don't apologize if you are watching um watching it on youtube so effectively I want you to think of a grey rock now um if you are in cherox and you're a geologist I do apologise, but let's assume that looking at a grey rock is boring. You kick along when you're walking. It's not something that really stands out as something really beautiful. Again, apologies to the rock lovers and the geologists, but work with me on this one. If a grey rock is something that's appealing to you, you know, maybe think of something else. But effectively, this is called the grey rock method. So think of it as something that's boring. It's not interesting. That's exactly what we're trying to aim for when we're dealing with somebody who has a narcissistic trait or toxic. So it's not about being rude or mean. It's just becoming so uninteresting that they hopefully lose interest or start to lose interest. um and pushing your emotional buttons that's what they're after they're after a emotional response so they will say something um you will respond. And then you will probably respond at a level that could be seen as attacking. And then they're going to grab that and go, oh, Stacey was so mean to me. And oh, she's just, she's just yelled my head, you know, head off for like no apparent reason. She's so mean, like, you know, so they're getting, that's a response that they want. So that's a whole thing that they're trying to do. They're trying to make them perceive themselves that they are the ones that are being hard done by and that they're attacked and, you know, you're so mean and you're the most horrible person thing on the earth. That's what they're craving. So the meaning behind the Grey Rock Method is that you don't give them what they want. So you don't give them the emotional reactions that they're seeking because they want drama and they want attention. And if you fire back with that drama and attention, that's exactly what they're going to want. Now, I know it's easier said than done. I'm not saying that this is going... to be easy but it might be something that you can just be mindful of when you are interacting with you know whoever that person is that's trying to get that emotional response from you so I know sometimes you can open your mouth and then you've said it before you've realized that you've said it And you know, that happens. I'm a lot better than what I was, but sometimes, depending on what's happening, who it is, how much you've paid me off, sometimes I could also fight back myself. So I myself am not perfect. But essentially, you just want to cut off that emotional supply. Now, it might not stop completely, but it might, or if it does, that's even better. But they might reduce the amount of times that they do it because they're not getting that reaction that they're wanting. So depending on what the situation is, they might go and find somebody else to give them that reaction. that they're after. They might come at you less, perhaps. So as I said, it's just something that you might better try to use. I'm not saying it's going to work. I'm not saying it's not going to work, but it's just a suggestion. Some ways that you can incorporate it. So here are some examples that I put together just to give you a bit of idea of how to use it. Now, the responses are pretty blunt. Like, they're very short and sweet, and you'll see the examples when I go through them. But think of this as your emotional force field. If I was into sci-fi, I'm sure there's probably something sci-fi-y I can... you know um mention about this like some shield thing that you're putting up in front of you the more you use it the more you're going to get better at it so just yeah if you are going to try this or you have tried this I would love to hear your feedback just to see um whether it's work whether it's not worked whether it's you know, the amount of, you know, toxicity that is aimed at you is reduced, whether you have other suggestions. What I'm really interested just in particular in the Greyrock method, because in the coming weeks, I will obviously add some more tools to the tool belt. But so let's say they're trying to create drama. And they're coming at you and they're saying, I can't believe you bought our daughter an iPhone. You're trying to buy her love. Or I can't believe you brought computer. Whatever it might be. Insert thing here. So your response possibly could have been, how dare you? I'm trying to keep her safe and in touch with friends. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Insert your old response here. What you want your grey rock response to me, it's like the phone's been purchased, full stop. Or it's to keep her safe in case she needs to reach us. Or it's so we know that she's safe, he's safe, whatever it might be. Something that is just really, really blunt that is just not going to give them that emotional response that they're seeking. So that's one example. Another example might be when they are trying to fish for information. So it might be, so Sarah told me that you're seeing somebody else. Tell me about them. I'm using names. We obviously insert your own children's name in here. Your response might have been, that's none of your business. Stop interrogating our daughter. That's not right. Grow up. Whatever that response was. Your response under the Grey Rock Method might be simple as the children's wellbeing is my focus. I'm not commenting on this. It has nothing to do with you. Don't involve my daughter in this. Just something, again, that's just really blunt. And again, not giving them that emotional response that they're wanting because if you give them that emotional response that they're wanting, they're just going to come at you again. And then you're going to go again. And it's just going to keep escalating. And that's just not good for your mental health. So you can't control what they're going to do, what they're going to say. You can only control yourself and how you react and what you're going to say in those circumstances, right? So another one might be when they're starting to criticize you for something. So they might be saying, your house is a mess. No one of the kids prefer to stay with me. Your old response might have been, you have no right to judge my home. The kids are happy here. You have them, you know, one day a fortnight. I have them, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, emotional response, you know, attacked back. You might just say, look, see you at three when you pick them up. See you at Tuesday at three when you pick them up. Again, just something really, really blunt. Don't give them that emotional response that they're seeking. when they're trying to bait you for something. So this is probably where they're really, really trying to get your reaction. So they might say, look, it must be really nice going on holidays while I'm really working hard to pay child support for you. You know, your response to that might be, I'll work really hard too. That money's for the children. It's not for me. You know, whatever. Your response might be just simply, okay, received. No worries. That's it. So again, it's just not giving them that emotional fight that they are wanting because if you give them that, they will use that against you and play the victim. That's what they do. And again, don't be surprised if, and I've said this before on socials and on podcasts and stuff, but don't be surprised if if you are going through a separation, that you lose friends in these and possibly even families because that narcissistic person has probably like brainwashed the people around you, especially if you had mutual friends. and you know what if they believe that if they want to listen to just like one side of the story always said that there's three sides of a story sometimes there's more but usually if there's two people there's you know possibly three sides to a story you know what let them let them go if that's the way the cookie is going to crumble then They are not your people. Go find people who will support you. And hopefully you have that in your support network anyway. So either they've been in Party for Life for a very long time, if that's what their choice is, you know what, let them. Yes, it might be really lonely. Yes, it might be really upsetting. And, you know, there might be a grief process if you're going through that with people you've known for a very long time. But if they're just going to go straight to, you know, believing what that person is saying it's like okay well you're not my friend anyway you're not who I thought you were I don't need you in my life I don't need you running back to my ex saying all this crap um yeah so don't be surprised if that happens but you know what um just let them and you know find your own crew um so The mistakes to avoid when you are trying to not respond with emotion, I suppose. So you don't need to explain yourself. So if they're coming at you with something, you don't need to explain yourself. You don't need to defend your actions. You don't need to justify yourself. Just make it as short and sweet as possible so they're not getting the reaction that they want. You don't need to share personal information unless, obviously, of course, A matter of disclosure, you need it for your divorce or your separation. That would be shared with your lawyer anyway, probably. Try not to engage in emotional topics. Again, if something comes up, short, sweet, blunt, they would not like it. So, you know, you might want to use it, you know, during handover. So again, if they're coming at you saying your house is a mess, you haven't mowed the lawn, whatever it might be, just like mow it. Or you might just want to ignore it and go, yep, so kids have a great time. I'll see you. Whenever. You're just not giving them that bite that they're fishing for. In a text message, you might want to respond really blunt. Why am I saying blunt? That doesn't mean you're not responding with the emotion that they're expecting back. If you struggle, there is chat GPT and other AI tools things that are free, you might want to type your response into that to take the emotion out of it perhaps. And, you know, if you have that emotion there, sometimes I type things out. I don't put it to. So usually it's an email because I'm at my computer so much or sometimes it could just be a Word document. You might just want to type it out, write it out. So it's out and then delete it, rip it, whatever it might be. um at a school event you know you're there for the kids if you're at school you're not there to create drama or anything like that um if you think that it's going to be impossible to kind of sit near each other or whatever don't sit near each other sit apart um so you're running not running the risk of something happening if you are sitting together and want to enjoy way that you don't want to be kind of having to come up with these short blunt responses you don't want them to be in your ear about something that's got nothing to do with what the reason that you're at school so if that can't happen just sit apart there is nothing they're saying that you have to sit together um yeah and any necessary phone calls as well so you know face-to-face text anything like that is um we could use that great work method when not to use it. Probably don't use it with your support system. You hopefully have established your support system and there are people that have stuck by you or are sticking by you or helping you through this transition. So you probably don't want those really blunt, short responses with them because that might not sit well. And they probably don't deserve them in that they're probably not attacking you like this other person may be. So you probably find that you won't be needing it in that situation anyway. you definitely don't want to use it with your children. So it's always meant to be in the best interest of the children, but children can also be used as pawns. And I think that's really disgusting. So if that is, again, if you're using your kids as pawns to try and get at your ex, not the podcast for you, not the person for you. But hopefully you know that by now anyway. But yeah, your kids don't need those really short ones. responses they need to know that they're loved um and you know you're going to be there for them not those short fight responses um in legal proceedings you probably don't want to be doing that either if you have managed to get to court or you've been a lawyer or whatever you probably don't want those short fight responses either if you are dealing with narcissistic lawyer hopefully hopefully you're not because hopefully I've given you enough information to pick a lawyer that aligns with your values. But if you do, you need to consider whether you want to continue on your relationship with that lawyer or whether you should be stopping and finding somebody else. Bear in mind that if you do that, some practices do not take on transfer files. We are one of them. So if you start with another lawyer and then you end up not wanting to proceed with them because you've had a falling out or something, it is our policy that we don't take any transferred files and that's actually like really drummed into myself when I attend our law cover CLEs. It's like basically don't do it. So you need to bear in mind that if you do decide to change lawyers that you might struggle because other lawyers have that same policy as well. But hopefully you would have known early on whether your lawyer does have that narcissistic toxic trait. But yes, lawyers, legal system, please don't use the Grey Rock Method with that. And you probably don't want that with new relationships either. So I know that there's a pile of healing to do. You know, there's a great process there's so many things that can happen after a separation or a divorce and doesn't matter what side of that separation slash divorce you run whether you initiated it whether it was initiated for you there will be probably a process that you will follow with grief happiness and it'll probably you know wave up and down for a little while but you probably don't want to start off a new relationship with those really blunt responses if you find that you really do need to work on yourself first which you probably do especially if you've been in a long relationship that's something that I can help with as well at Stacey M but yeah you might want to consider doing that before you enter into a new relationship so you're not falling into the same relationship to the one that you just left because that could be possible as well. But yeah, Grey Rock Method, probably not recommended for your new relationships. Just remember that this is just a tool. It's not a lifestyle. You don't have to do it. It might be something that you incorporate across the board. It might be you have a shitty next door neighbor or a work colleague or it doesn't even have to be an ex or... you know, you're soon to be ex-husband, wife, you know, it's just another tool that you can add to your tool belt if you feel comfortable using it, right? make sure that you have that outlet for emotion. So how I said before, whether you type something, whether you write something, sometimes people write something and you know, scrunch it, rip it, set it on fire. You might want to do boxing. You might want to do crossfit, like, you know, exercise, go for a run. That could be where you get your emotions out. You also have like therapists, psychs, counselors, and things like that as well. You might want to journal if journaling is your thing. Not quite my thing, but, you know, maybe journaling is something that you can incorporate for your emotions as well. Make sure you stay connected with that support system as well. So we've touched on that already. So you have hopefully set up the right support system for you. Make sure that you keep in touch with them. I've mentioned like an eight-minute thing before. as well if you go through um oh I can post uh below in the show notes but you know um sending a text or an email to somebody saying do you have eight minutes and you know that's the key to go cool you know if that person's not all right let's stop on a call in ten minutes and you know we can have a quick chat so just make sure that you stay supported with your support system and sorry stay connected with your support system if you find that that they're not the right support system for you, then you probably need to make sure that you find somebody who is the right person for your support system. And again, I've already mentioned that, but just consider therapy. So, you know, I have the hypnotherapy and RTT therapy side. I have the divorce coaching side. You might not have the psych. You might want a counsellor. Consider things like that as well to just fit what you're thinking, what you're feeling. So remember, it's not necessarily about being cold in your responses. I was using the word blunt, but it's a short and sweet responses. You're not meant to be cold. It's just more you're being strategic with what those responses are. So you're not giving that emotional response that they're seeking. So then they become the victim and, you know, you're the worst person in the world. And they'll probably tell their lawyer. And then you'll probably get a letter from their lawyers, you know, saying how bad your attitude was. And, you know, they'll try and affect your property settlement or, you know, your parenting agreement or something like that. It's also not necessarily about winning. So people will say, oh, I won in my divorce. I lost in my divorce. Interpret that however you want to, whether you've considered yourself that you've won or not. I don't think looking at it from that perspective is probably the healthiest. Look at it as if it's just about peace. If I can provide a three-word response as opposed to a two-sentence response where I'm just firing off with emotion. I say don't react with emotion. That's incredibly hard to do. I am much better. I know I can be better, but I know that that's something I have really worked on, especially how I've kind of changed the past few years as to how I practice law. I've never been that yuck kind of litigious lawyer but I know in my time I've definitely fired up some responses because you know I'm dealing with somebody on the other side who's a horrible person and now if that happens I ignore what's in that letter because it's not going to move the needle and it's not going to result in a settlement and it's just trying to get a reaction. Or if it's really affecting my client from like a mental health perspective, I'd be like, hey, you know, this is it. You have no evidence for this. I'm not responding. It just depends on what it is. But I'm definitely a much more about... bringing peace because I don't want to be checking my emails or checking my phone and cringing because I'm waiting for that expected response because I fired off a response that might have felt good at the time. But I know when that response comes in, I'm going to be like, ugh, I'm not going to be really wanting to rate that. And then it will just keep on flowing. Like the shots will just keep getting fired. So just remember, it's not about winning. It's more about peace. um practice makes perfect so it's just that small as I said I am a lot better than what it was I need to be better I think I've actually probably started swearing more than what I had before because I'm not responding in an email but if I say something I you know it could be curse words come out of my mouth um sorry I'm not saying that's right either You know, practice makes perfect. Start small. This might not be something you're comfortable with, whether that's because you're never going to use it. That's completely fine. This is just one thing. Or whether it's going to take you time, you know, whatever it might be, just remember to start small though. I don't feel bad if you have fired off with emotion because, you know, sometimes that just happens. And just remember, like, you've got this. I will provide as many things as I possibly can. That's the whole reason I was starting the podcast. It was obviously when we have our clients, it's one-on-one. When I have our email, our socials, our podcast, it's, I can reach more of you obviously with that. So this one isn't suitable for you. I'll just keep finding more solutions and keep doing podcasts on this to add to your tool build. So I'm happy I did break that down, adjusting it to the Greyrock method today because we've nearly hit thirty minutes. I'm quite happy that I did take that approach with it. But yeah, just remember, look, it's You know, a separation or divorce is probably not going to be all unicorns and rainbows. With a narcissistic person or a toxic trait person, it's probably not going to be pleasant either. Just remember, you can't control them. The only thing that you can control is you and your response to that. And it's finding that pace. It's not cringing at the email when your ex comes up. It's not cringing at the text when that text message comes up. It is just about pace. And be easy on yourself if you do respond with emotion. Like, you're human. It's okay. Commission granted if that's what you need. It's not going to be perfect all the time. But yeah, so hopefully that helps. The narcissistic topics are what everybody keeps asking for. So I probably will be doing some more podcasts in the next couple of weeks in relation to just more tools that you can add to your toolbook when you're dealing with a narcissistic slash toxic person. But hopefully the Grey Rock Method is something that you might be able to incorporate in your dealings with a narcissist or a toxic person. So it doesn't necessarily have to be in relation to a divorce or a separation. It could be your neighbor, a work colleague, a boss, you know, it could be all used all around. So, you know, I might even teach my kids about this too. You know, if, you know, you kind of get that kid in a fight around that morning, running that response, you know, it might be something that the kids can use as well. Just, instead of you know teaching them to fire back as well you know I'll probably go through this with my girls hey if someone's trying to get that response from you you know maybe this is something that you can you know incorporate into your response so you're not getting that response that they're after and then hopefully they leave you alone so um I don't think there was any other tips No, I think that's pretty well it. So hopefully the grey work method is something new for you and something that, yeah, you, you know, hopefully might be able to try in the future. And yeah, stay tuned. I will be adding some more tools to your tool belt over the next few weeks. probably months and years. So have a great day or night whenever you are listening to this. Thank you for tuning in again. Just remember to forward this on to anyone who you think might benefit from that, whether they're dealing with a narcissistic slash toxic person, that would be great. Otherwise, I will catch you next episode. So stay safe and I will catch you guys then. See you.
