Are you recording? Where's my time? Okay. No, there's a little bit of a gap. So I'm just waiting for the time to, it says it's recording, but it's not coming up with the minutes. The last time I cut myself off at the start and it didn't. Yes. Got it. All right. Hopefully that's enough. Yeah. I think we're good. Usually it comes up within minutes, but it's not, but I think we're okay. All right. I'm good to go. You good? Yep. Good to go. all right so hello um it's daisy and I've had the lovely janine here this week who I yelled at because she was meant to be in my podcast last year I'm gonna give her a bit of a roast but I'll let janine introduce herself for today, but today's podcast is about being in that corporate world and going through a separation. So Janine, you just want to introduce yourself and what you do and what your background is and we'll get started. Sure. Thank you, Stace. And yes, thanks for the little nudge. That's great. So yes, basically, I have my own business for the last fourteen years and working primarily in the corporate arena because my background is human resources in corporate. And obviously with my own business, I go in and out of all different industries, all different size organizations working with both males and females. And primarily there's two kind of areas. One is sort of that team facilitation and strategy work. And the other side of it is leadership development and executive coaching. and what I noticed through all the executive coaching is that we're never just talking about business and we're never just talking about their role as leaders in business but a lot of the life stuff comes in as well because that impacts who we are and how we turn up at work and so yeah so that's kind of been the last fourteen or so years and then about two years ago I've started to go more into the online space, specifically focused on women in corporate and really helping them to kind of, I guess, navigate how their career fits in with life, not the reverse. And how did they set goals and I guess live a life that's full of empowerment and fulfillment so that it's not all career focused. yeah and you mentioned like I feel that's obviously no badness to males but I think we feel I know I feel so much responsibility with okay well I have two girls for starters if I had sons it could be different I'm not sure yeah yeah like I have two daughters I have like these businesses um there is flying everywhere trying like like the absolute best of it and every book is older now but um it's all you know they say like work life balance and I don't think that's the thing I think it very much has to intertwine with everything and my girls don't know me doing anything different other than what I do now because I was so little when I went out on my own but yeah it's just all all they know but I'm not saying that's been perfect either um but yeah I think it is really hard to whether you're like in the corporate world or whether you're not it's still really difficult to try and just mesh all of that together and then when you add the added layer of like going through a separation so I just said if a lot of the personal stuff that comes up when you're coaching people you have to deal with both you can't go oh well sucks to be you let's put that aside because we're talking about work like it shows it affects how you show up how you know you show up at home to your family like to everything so um I suppose what are your observations with people going through a separation so I don't refer to it as a divorce because there's a relationship so separation And the issues that it might cause in corporate. So whether you're speaking from a person who might be owning a business and like them showing up to, you know, be a leader or somebody working in the corporate field who might be an employee who's, you know, I try not to throw that title around like my team. know that we are all together. I think the other one I said, if M&M tickets come out, my leave is trumping everybody else's. So to me, we are a team, but we're a small team. So again, what are the observations people go through separation, whether they're the owner of the business or whether they're an employee within a business? Yeah, great question. So observations are that as much, so first of all, I think a lot of people put on a mask when they turn up and show up for work because there's all this chaos going on in the background and work is probably the anchor for them and it's the stable thing. And so when they walk through that door or they get online, suddenly the mask has to come back so that they can appear professional. And that's the one space that is kind of, as I said, normal. for them that would be my first observation but actually what happens in especially in the coaching sessions is the layers start unpeeling because of the amount of stress that they've they're going through and the burdens and what sits on people's shoulders during that period and expectations of others especially for those who have kids and what that looks like and feels like. So the level of stress is probably the biggest thing that despite them kind of appearing like the calm duck on the surface and then the legs are paddling underneath as they try and deal with the enormity of what's happening in their life. Yeah. And so one of the things that I kind of try and do with people is for them to remove the mask is, I guess, the key. Because I say to them, even if you think people aren't noticing, they are. And they know something's going on, but they don't want to have the conversation because they don't want you to feel uncomfortable. Or sometimes they don't know how to raise the conversation. Correct. Exactly right. Exactly right. Exactly right. But what I say to them is, you know, you can't turn up, you can't expect to go through something so huge in your life and then turn up at work and be... on it and at a hundred percent it's just not that's not real um and so you're much better off kind of being a little bit vulnerable in a way and sharing with the people that you trust um you know whether that's your higher level manager or whether that's some of your peers or whether that's you know the human resources or people in culture teams whoever that is you're better off letting some people into that circle so that they can support you, stand up for you, enable you, realise what's going on when, you know, if your performance isn't there or if you are having extra days off work or whatever it looks like, they will back you when they know and they're in the circle rather than when they're not in the circle. Yeah, and they think that you're just slacking off or you don't care. Correct. Exactly. All of that. Exactly right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. read or heard something the other day and I can't quite remember what the percentages were I was effectively we spend more time with our work colleagues than what we do like with our own family which I've I've known but it wasn't until like I thought I read it again another day I'm like oh yeah well that's you know yeah That is true. Like you might work in a really good organisation and you might not talk to everybody or have a relationship with anybody, but you do spend more time with your work family than you do kind of like at home. Yeah, exactly. And if you've been in an organisation for a long time, those people that work very closely with you, probably you've already kind of brought them into your fold anyway, you know, because you go out for drinks on the Friday night with them or whatever it looks like, you know. You've built... friendships as well as professional relationships. But it often happens that, and I certainly saw that during COVID, where people had started new roles. So they haven't established those relationships and they're going through this big thing. So there's no one there that they, I guess, have brought into their fold yet. Yet they're going through something huge. And then that was kind of my first prompt was, You need to actually go and share this. You need to go and tell someone that this is what you're going through so that they understand because they'll be observing you and there'll be signs that something's not quite right, but they can't read your mind. Yeah. And as you said, it was a good point. So there's still a lot of people who are working at home. Like some businesses are just completely remote now that haven't gone back to face-to-face. We are back face-to-face. We've been back. Well, kind of class is essential. So we'll kind of never really, but just the zoom. I suppose with clients just, you know, there's a lot more rooms with clients. Yep. But yeah, there's definitely, um maybe a different culture if you are working solely online with somebody especially like some people like work with companies overseas so sometimes they might be working the night and sleeping during the day type thing but yeah I hadn't really thought about it because we don't do like we're not we have a service based office that yeah we're going through anything life major whether if you're not physically attending The opposite, it would probably be a lot more lonely if you're behind a computer. Absolutely. Yeah, like the mannerisms and how you're speaking, so you might still have like that business face or the business voice on. Exactly. But I would imagine it's so much more lonely because you haven't got those connections and you don't have... Friday night drinks, or it could be virtual Friday night drinks, whatever. But yeah. No, it's absolutely right. Or just the location, because during COVID, what a lot of corporates did was it gave them permission to hire people that are not in their state or close to the office. So now you've got these dispersed teams. because that was the thing to do during COVID. Oh, this gives us a lot of more availability to recruit people from all these different areas. So the whole team's based in, you know, all different states. So you're not forming that normal connection that you would when you're all in an office. And as you said, and when you show up, you're showing up as the professional because you're part of a meeting because it's very rare that people are going to jump online for social, right? Yeah. yeah and you like have a good point like there's pros and cons obviously like if I could hire if you have the ability to hire anybody yeah not based on location because you're an online business then like awesome like that shouldn't be your pool's gonna be a lot bigger right so yeah yeah So I'm going to ask this question before I go to the other question because the other wasn't sure I was thinking of this question. But if you have a business that is hybrid, so whether maybe there's some work at home, whether you have the option of like going to the office, like whatever that might be, do you have tips for either people in that HR role or people maybe more senior? Probably doesn't have to be senior. Like do you have tips for people to try and how to engage people we've you know like so you know my gem and I my assistant will sit down and like have a cup of tea together yes in the morning and then she makes places like with our snakes and we have freckles so like that's perfect that's what that's that's our thing and if you're working at home like you don't have that thing like I'm working at home today and had to make my own cup of tea it just wasn't the same so when you're looking at them kind of all about what tips do you have for people to kind of have that something similar online than what yeah so I think the number one thing is is if you are in a leadership role and you have direct reports the key to it all is do you know that individual beyond the person on the screen Because when we, and the primary vehicle for that or the best way of getting to know that person is through your one-on-ones with them. So those should be, whether you're in the office or not, one-on-ones with each of your team members is such a powerful way to get to know the human behind the person that turns up and is the consummate professional and does a great job for you. What is going on in their life? How many kids do they have? Do you know the kids names? Do you know that that person's mother is in aged care and that they just moved them in this week? A number of times I'm in coaching sessions and I'll then go to that group's higher level manager. And so I, I'm a bit naughty, but I, what I'm trying to get across is a message to them. And I'll say, do you know who in your team's mum has Alzheimer's and they, they have, they are actually the second carer. And they'll be like, no. And I'll be like, do you know whose kids. are both autistic and that they deal with all of that every night. No. Do you know, like, that blah-blah lost their cousin overseas? No. Right? So there's all this different stuff that, and I said, and then I'll often be a bit presumptuous and naughty because I'll say to that leader, well, I've only had two coaching sessions with them online and I know. Yep. Right? So what is your role as a leader beyond the obvious stuff where you have to get to know that human being behind because that way you're going to get optimum out of them anyway. Yeah. And how, so you're talking about one-on-one. So like I have two legal practices. I have a mortgage-broking business. I have a legal practice. They're all up at Queensland. They all work at home, the majority of them. So here's the office space that we hear together. Yeah. time like I don't know where yesterday's gone I don't know how are we in march like honestly it's every intention to try and reach out to people I know it's just So the best way is to just schedule it. Yeah, I get it. It was like, how often should you be trying to... It's a really good point. So the bigger the team, the less often, obviously, because you're not a miracle worker and we have a finite amount of time and we've still got to get work done. But I, you know, so if you've got a really a lot of people that you have to meet with one-on-ones, you're probably going to do it, you know, once every fortnight or once every month. But as long as that person knows that that is yours and their time, you'll get the results that you need anyway. I mean, the ideal is obviously weekly to fortnightly because you're just checking in and they don't need to be big. When they're operational and you're just quickly flying through things, I always kind of go, what are your three questions that you want to ask as that leader? Okay, if it's weekly, what's your priority this week? What's the one thing that you have to get done that will shift the needle? All right. Any problems with that? Any blockers? How can I support you? Do you need me to step in? And then the third thing is, how are you? Yeah. Are you okay? Got anything going on this? Yeah, right? I mean, I do, but it's definitely not weekly or fortnightly. Yeah, yeah. And I suppose for me it was always, right, so you know that you can come to me. And, like, my employers are, like, five and six years, so clearly I'm not too bad. Yes. But, like, if there is anything, you know that you can come to me. to me and we do know each other so personally like because yeah you know kids of similar ranges and stuff but yeah I definitely have to say I don't think I do it on a weekly to four nightly basis but then no they can always come to me but I think you've already built trust good yeah you've already built trust right so so when you say that to them and say you know you can come to me with anything I'm assuming that there would be a level of trust with them because they've worked with you for a long time as you said you all you know their kids names you know I heard you just say that right so there's a level of trust and um knowledge about that person that you already have so that makes it a lot easier to go you know come to me when you need to yeah however would I still say to people yep you might not not need to do it on a weekly fortnightly basis but once a month um and then once a quarter it could be around development Yeah, that's probably where I raise it. Like I've just sent out kind of reviews. I'm a bit haphazard. I do them, but they're probably not exactly like two months or whatever. So for a team member, I'm like, right, so you, Ali, my other lawyer, is spending more time like with Alex. I'm like, right, Alex, fill out your questions. Ali, fill out the questions about Alex and let's meet up probably next week when we're all together and let's, Perfect. Let's have a chat about that. So I definitely do all that. I think the great chat we have is, very beneficial. I don't know, there's the whole, you're not meant to contact your employers outside of work hours. We do that a lot, but it's not about work. It's about like other things. But then I always say that, you know, that if I contact you, like I did not expect a response. I'm working different hours than you. And if I don't send stuff now, like I'm going to forget it. I can guarantee I'm going to forget it. So obviously you don't have that boundary of like when you're contacting people. And if you're in different time zones, like that's going to have to be taken into consideration. But definitely just asking those simple questions, you know, how are you doing? Are we all okay? Is there anything I can do to support you? I've noticed that you're not quite yourself. Your work's kind of a little bit off. Yeah, exactly. You haven't delivered on these, you know, all those conversations. But, you know, and that goes, what you were just describing, you know, sometimes we talk after work or, you know, again, it's because there's trust there. Yeah. Right. So as soon as someone trusts their leader and knows that that person has their best interest at heart professionally and personally. Right. This is where the wellbeing space comes in. Right. And you are giving them permission to contact you to come to you with issues and you will they know you will help and support them. That's very different to when you're dealing with new leaders who haven't got that rapport yet with you haven't had a long enough time period to establish trust. and you don't know how they're going to come back and support you yet. yeah do you do you notice well first of all before I forget this part so there's obviously no shame in coming forward to your to your leader to your employer to hr whatever it is if there is something like if there is something happening if there is you know if there is mental health issues if you're going through family concerns like yeah anything like you need to speak up um but I nearly forgot my question then see that's why I've got to like write everything down but have you noticed a different like perspective with ages. So I know from an employer perspective, the kind of expectations of like when we're looking for new employees is kind of like, wow, I would so not do that. So with leaders, do you notice a difference in relation to like generational? Absolutely, definitely. I know at the moment it's different to how yes the generation is they come from and this is them as leaders as well as sharing anything personal right they have come from a generation where it is we do not share our personal stuff We put it under the carpet and hope it goes away. We, you know, like if I think about my mum's generation, like they are a generation that just you'd never see a counsellor. You would never talk about mental health. You know, and now that's our normal, right? You know, like even when I was in HR and corporate, I used to have people who are in my generation coming to me and going, I don't want anyone else to know about this. And it was rare that they would come to us and talk to us about mental health, et cetera. And it was when all of that was first coming out. And then you talk about, you know, never would anyone come to you and say they were having marriage issues or, you know. Nowadays, like the new generation coming through are like, here's me, stripped bare, you know. Yeah. No filter. And I kind of am like that's amazing because that's that vulnerability that we want good leaders to have to say we're not perfect. You know, we're also going through our own stuff. So when you've got those two generations kind of sharing pretty much everything, you know, that's a match made in heaven because that establishes trust for people. Yeah. Yeah, so probably just bear in mind age, generational things. So we're all, we're kind of like teeny apart from everybody. I think Alex might have stuffed that, but we're pretty well like ten. So like my eldest and then me and then like the next, so like we're kind of like all teeny apart from each other. So we get along like really, really well. And we do know. And it hasn't started that way, obviously. Like I said, it's a girl who's been with me for quite some time. So yeah. And a lot of us are breaking generational patterns in the way that we parent, right? So even if you do have some of those older generations in your workforce, actually they're learning quite a bit from the younger generation and they've also got their own kids and what they did and how they would have handled such situations, especially marriage breakups, et cetera, or they just wouldn't have separated because you didn't do that in my day, right? Yeah. When they come from that and then they, but actually they want it to be different for their kids because they want their kids to be happy. So if that means you separate and you get divorced and you change, like, okay, do what makes you and your kids happy. So they're learning, we're breaking generational patterns that we needed to break in a lot of ways. So it's possibly just, it's not that someone's trying to be rude or whatever, it's probably, and the upbringing, like have you got cultural things in there? Absolutely. well exactly yeah there's another layer right yeah yeah so just be mindful that you know if someone's not wanting to connect with you it's not them trying to be more committed and trying to be arrogant but like look at the other perspective in that it could be a cultural thing they might be uncomfortable they might have never had that in employment before so it's kind of like what's happening like this is green this is how exactly Exactly. Yeah, bear that in mind. There definitely is a lot. Like, I know when I first started working, like, so I've been in business nine years this month. Yeah. What was back then is, like, completely different. Absolutely. So now, like I just said to the girls, because we have a lot of clients who are suicidal, and I did suicidal prevention training maybe last year or the year before. Yeah. And there's more around that's coming around. I'm like, look, if you girls want to go do this, like, you go, don't leave me all at once. I have all these phone chains up. Like, if that's something that you want to do, like, happy now. Like, go do it. And they all said yes. So it's even that additional kind of... layers of knowledge and experience and and strategies to when you are dealing with that yeah um but even you know I've got my kids aren't in high school yet but I've got a lot of friends who because I'm an older mum but I've got a lot of friends whose kids are in that late year eleven year twelve early twenties and the amount of times one of them is brought up you know that one of their friends is suicidal and they're dealing with that issue around their friend because of, you know, marriage breakdowns in their parents or because of pressure in the world or whatever. It's just a different generation. They're learning to deal with things that were hidden before. They happened. All of that happened. But we just never spoke about it or it wasn't appropriate to speak about it. yeah but like it's even not that age like my kids were kind of around it I don't mention the client aspect of it because it's talking about school and stuff and then you know so it's not even like it doesn't even have to be senior people getting into mental health all of a sudden here but um I think it's really just being open and there's so much more accessible like my kids laugh at me when they said I didn't have a computer and internet until I was like late in high school and that doesn't make sense But it just wasn't a thing and they can't understand. I'm like, you have access to so much more stuff now than what we have. There's whole piles of stuff, which is also like generational. But also it's in the curriculum at schools. Yes. You know, like on Mondays at my boys' school, sorry, they have meditation mondays yep yeah they've got my girls go to a christian private I don't I get they call it something but it's something similar I think it's like every morning but like yeah there's so effectively there's different things and there's always people coming to school to talk and yeah yep yep yeah amazing yeah um my computer has just shut down the questions on this side I know one of them was in relation to, I'm going to have to bring it up on my phone now, like self-care, whether that's coming from like a leadership point of view or whether that's coming in from you personally going through something. What are your tips with that? And I will try to bring up the rest of the questions on my phone. That's fine. Hilarious. So self-care. Yes. Often in the coaching sessions, when there's an acknowledgement or someone's been brave enough to share that they're going through something as huge as separating from their partner and that, you know, their first concern usually is like the impact on others. But one of the things in particular for the females in a lot of the breakups is they're all about protecting the kids and looking after their wellbeing. And I'm not saying that the males don't, but it generally falls on the females. That's just the rite of passage that happens in those times. And they are usually with them a lot more of the time than the males are. So what I generally say is, you can't care for them and look after them if you don't fill your own cup first and that's really hard in situations like this because your trauma response and your hormones and the stress levels and everything are going to be out of whack so you know what's one thing you can do for you yeah right and so and it might like and then they'll be like oh I don't know and I'll be like oh what about going to see a naturopath so that you can support yourself through this in terms of your hormones and your moods and your, you know, just all that kind of stuff? Or is it just going for a walk once a week? Because as soon as you put the emphasis on them having to do something for themselves, it feels exhausting because they're already doing so much for everyone else. So it's about doing it. Correct. Exactly. Yeah. So it's about breaking it down and just saying, just do one thing. Just do one thing, start with one thing once a week, and then you can build up over time when, you know, you're going through the journey. But, yeah, my push is always you need to look after you so that you can look after others because otherwise you're just going to get depleted, you're going to get stressed out, you're going to get burnout, all the rest of it. And then hence how that links into the, and P.S., you better share this with people at work so that they support you. right yeah it definitely like and I definitely pushed myself far before and I kind of I know the warning signs like my body's like right like you're getting to your limit like if you keep going I'm gonna like drop you on your butt a little bit more and then so I kind of you play with your your level exactly yeah so the weekend just gone I'm like right like in my pajamas until like midday I'm like yes super slow my body's starting to kind of get cranky at me and yes not being selfish but even small things though like I'll tell people so like I have Scented cream on my desk. I honestly think I like I swipe these from hotels. So I'm in Gold Coast next week I'm gonna swipe like a whole pile more. Yeah, all of it And I usually make sure that they're scented like so they smell good. Yeah, but I will just give myself like a quick hand massage So like I'll pop some in, I'll smell it. Yes, yes And just like just sit at my desk and like just yeah something as simple as that is so good for me my daily so when I um I've got an online women's program and one of the things we talk about is me time so if I call it self-care for a lot of people that automatically equates to eating right and doing exercise and killing themselves um but when when we talk about me time it's what do you need to support yourself this week or this day or this month or whatever um and I will send a link for you so that you can send it so it's just a one-page sheet and it just has daily so daily for me non not hard is I take a cup of tea and I go and sit in the sun for ten minutes all right so that activity alone helps me through so many stresses, right? And then you think you have to think about weekly. So weekly for me is a bath. with bath bombs and sitting there. And then I put Bali music on and I pretend I'm overseas in Bali, right? And then monthly is a girl's night out, right? Or all the way through to annual, which is the family holiday, right? So that what it does for us is it shows us that small little things like putting on hand cream, sitting in the sun, whatever that looks like, all the way to a planned holiday, there's life at the end of the tunnel and we can put ourselves first. Yeah, that's really great. I like that. So mine's a cup of tea thing as well. If I don't have my cup of tea, I feel like my day is just wrong. Absolutely. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. I start with a good cup of English breakfast in the morning. Or if, like, I've got to take the kids to school and then go to the office, like, it's travel. But then, like I said, when I'm in the office, Gem makes it for me. So, like, I look forward to my cup of tea. And then because we have to make some, like, breakfast in the office, she makes it for me. Yeah, exactly. I love that. Yeah, yeah. See, I definitely haven't thought of it from that perspective. And I really like that because it's, it's something to look forward to, especially the family trip, or even don't feel guilty if you can't do that. But it just breaks it down really simple. So I like the fact that you have your daily. So obviously, we're both a cup of tea. And then, you know, the weekly so I don't know what that is for me I'd have to yeah thinking about that yeah like a monthly level like a quarterly level I just yeah yeah I like that and it doesn't have to be something it's not it's not it's not always yeah exactly I'm just about to say instead of the beach with your cup of tea or you know correct correct it doesn't have to be don't think you need to spend a lot of money to exactly exactly right I like that one. Yes. What else do we have? So kind of like the legacy statement. So kids know everything, like they pick up on stuff, no matter how young they are, they pick up on stuff, whether things are good or bad or whatever. You see that in family law. a lot. Like a client the other day said, like I asked him how are the kids going? And he's like, yeah, like the daughter's struggling and she's five. They pick up on that energy. Absolutely. And, you know, sometimes if not rainbows and unicorns, sometimes it's Extend your impact. And every time I kind of talk about something like, well, DV is obviously the exception. Like anything, DV is just the exception. So if it kind of works on your relationship or anything, it's probably not going to be an option. Correct. Yeah. But kind of that legacy statement, especially when there's kids involved, what are the tips in relation to that? So obviously we always say, look, don't talk about anything in front of the kids. Like that's going to come against you. Don't talk badly about your kids. your recs or family members or anything. Exactly. Against you when it's probably not the human you want to be. So what about the whole legacy statement and with the kids? So A couple of years ago, I was at a lunch with a group of girlfriends who I call my tribe and we all met each other through different things. And one of the girls was talking about the issues in her relationship. And this is not my question that I asked. I wish it was because it was such a brilliant, beautiful coaching conversation. And one of the girls asked this girl, what do your kids see? Yeah. And in that moment I was like, that's such a powerful question. And every time I've now since coached someone who is going through separation, I've asked that question of them. What are the kids hearing and seeing and feeling? And I guess when I step into leadership coaching and executive coaching, one of the first things that I do, regardless of their position from CEO down, is I ask them to create a leadership legacy statement. And the two questions that they have to answer in that statement is what kind of leader would I like to be known for? And then the second part is what impact do I want to have? Yeah. Right. And then they create a legacy statement. And that statement becomes a statement of intent. If this is what I want to be known for, well, then I better operate like that. I better lead like that. I better do the things that are going to help that legacy become truth. And so I kind of translated that for people going through, you know, or having lots of stuff happening in their homes is let's create a legacy statement around the impact you want to have during this difficult period. right? And just create it for yourself and have it up in a visible spot that you're constantly keeping yourself accountable to it. And it's simple. So whether it's the leadership one or the home one for when you're going through this is just checking in every night and going, is that how I conducted myself today? You know, because it's not easy and it's in those moments where you're separating for a reason. You know, you want to point the finger, you want to blame, but again, especially with kids, we have little eyes and also it's just in general, how would I like to be known for myself? How do I hold myself accountable to my values? Yes. I like that. Yeah. Maybe like that's one of the things we say, like when we go through a client, like when a client's going through a separation, it's like, right, so kids will pick up and stuff. You don't think that they're in the room, but they can probably hear like you. Absolutely. And your energy is completely different. Right. know people say look I'm tired of like being the better person I'm like yep but that's going to get you and you're going to have your moments where you're probably going to spit it like absolutely because we're not but this is not perfectionism right this is this is what I always say to them is you want most of the time yeah right so if you can kind of say you know what through that experience yes it was really hard and difficult but most of the time I was operating from this space. Yeah. And just set yourself reminders. Like I have reminders popping up on my phone all the time for various things, whether it's, you know, I've got one that pops up like, what can I eliminate today? I usually just flick past it. I'm trying to work out what I can like eliminate or delegate. Yeah. There's other reminders that pop up throughout. Absolutely. I'm not into journaling. Like if you're a journaler, like you probably do it in your aspect. But I'll just have, I've set reminders up in my phone, like through the calendar or I think it is. And they get, and then I see them. That's exactly right. exactly and you don't need to consciously sit there and analyze it and give yourself a rating out of ten and what would you do you know but it is just that so you know if I think about my leadership one it's just a habit now at the end of the day when I'm closing my laptop I'm like okay how closely was I aligned to my legacy today And then sometimes I'll be like, actually in that meeting, whatever it is. And that's the same. So my thing is exactly what you said on your phone, on your desktop background, print it out, put it on your fridge, put it on your wardrobe door, wherever it's going to be visible for you, because that visibility is enough to hold you accountable anyway. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. And I guess the only thing that we had on there was just, which we pretty well already discussed, was just like being open and honest. There is no shame if you're going through anything like, obviously we see that from the point of view of like family members going into care or like family members having health problems like heart attacks or strokes or we kind of range in like healthy clients and then all of a sudden there's a pile of like terminal clients. So you just really do know what somebody is going through and don't assume that they're being arrogant or they don't give a shit I said you're gonna have those people but the majority of the people are probably just going through some heavy stuff and when you throw cults and stuff in there as well like they're not meant to share certain stuff like exactly yeah exactly yeah it's kind of like you know there's a thing called like the accidental mediator so it's probably like the accidental leader or you know it's absolutely yeah but if you send something like hey like are you okay like do you need to go for a walk do you You don't have to be in a leadership role to kind of ask if somebody's okay. And as a leader, if you're in tune with your people, I call it in tune, right? So I used to have leaders say to me all the time, how the hell did you know she needed to go outside and have a talk with you? And I'm like, because every other day when I've walked past that person, this is when I was internal HR, they're normally the first to say, hey, Janine, how are you? How's your day? And the last two days I haven't had boo from them. So something's going on and that's the same. If we can tune into our people and understand that normally someone who's a really good performer and you can suddenly see the dip or you're not getting things or things that have been expected from them, there's an issue there. So it's about how do I go and tap into that and how do I ask them in a way that's, you know, safe? And that doesn't challenge their cultural stuff, but to just kind of let them know I'm here if you want to open up and you want to tell me, because I can see something's not quite right. And I want to offer you the support you need from a professional perspective. And there's lots of other things we can offer you too, because most organizations have EAP, you know, coaching and the counseling and stuff that's on offer um but again people have a stigma attached to a lot of that you know they worry that they do get reports back of who's used it nowadays I'd kind of say I think that's shifting because people they're still you know we've talked about the generational differences you know our the generations that are coming are going to be the first to put up their hand and go hell yeah I'm going for that right yeah so yeah so all of that stuff Yeah. It's yeah. It's like for some things I just can't not imagine doing things like some of my like employees that I have now like so we've like it's storm season it's australia so you know we had some pretty cool storms and like some of them are meant to like be turning pretty violent so I'll be like hey like just work at home today like if I don't want you to I don't want to be driving in that so you guys don't drive in that and like I think I'm joking I'm like no no no like there's either I'm like no like I'm not gonna be wanting to drive in that like what would I expect you but they'll expect you to do that they'll expect you to drive through flood water. They're expected to bring their vomiting child to work. They're expected to bring themselves to work with a vomit. I'm like, no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is exactly. No. Like, you're sick. Your kid's sick. You've got an appointment. You've got whatever. Yeah. Like, you've got to have that flexibility and, like, you need to have that. Otherwise, you're going to be going through team members. Like, there's no moral. Like, they're not going to be loyal. They're not going to give a shit about you or your business or whatever that's doing. Yeah. so there's massive benefit to yeah it's not enough to say as an organization you have a well-being policy or you you are concerned for people's psychosocial safety and all the rest of it that comes from leaders in the business actually making sure that those things are accessible that you are doing the right thing as a leader by lessening their workload by supporting them you know it otherwise it's like values I always say you know values are great in an organization when they're pretty and nice on the wall what does that look like lived out day to day in the way we operate and same with all the well-being stuff and um you know if we're not actually coming as you do right um because you're an exemplary example of that but not everyone's like that right oh yes we have a well-being policy well what are you doing around that yeah have you checked in with your people how's their workload going how stressed are they out of ten you know what else is going on in their life hence back to the one-on-ones you know if you can't do that regularly with your people how do you know yeah the values we just did the values recently actually they're made like the team I use the word made because I've told them they need to like right these are kind of values pick one if you don't like one like add your own and like let's let's work out what our values are we haven't done that for like a long time and we haven't done that in my new business either so yeah but no I'm pretty well identical like it was we're just all on the same page and that comes down to recruiting though as well so I know we've kind of spoken about a few different things but yeah um But they're all being declined. Yeah, true. So we made the conscious decision when we kind of went through a few bad team members was like we would all rather be worked off our ass than have that negative, bad energy. And we made that as a team. So I'm kind of like the boss and my team were like, well, we agree. We would rather be really, really busy than put on the wrong team member. We want to wait. And sometimes we wait a tall month to find Alex. Yeah. And she's just kind of, she's been, it's over twelve months now, so it's, yeah, it's, and you, yeah, it's just, yeah, it's cultural. People say, like, you know, we've got a really great culture. I was like, yeah, what is it? That's from the book. Are you implementing that? Like, yeah. But, yeah, there's definitely no shame in putting your hand up to go, hey, like, I know I do it. Like, I was having a bad day last week. I'm like, heads up, I'm in a mood, just let me know. And I make a joke about putting my happy music. So it's... I don't know, binaural beats or something, like I can't remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I'll go, just go put your happy music on, Stacey. I'm like, righto. So then I go to my office and I go and put it on. And then it honestly does bring you back down. So I'm very open with my team. It doesn't happen very often. Yeah, I think so much of what you've described today, you know, often the questions around values when I get brought into businesses around team planning or off sites or whatever it is to set the day up for success, but I equally use it when setting values for an organisation or when I set shared standards for a team, the questions to ask are, what do we need from each other? What do you need from everyone else in this group or this team or this company or whatever it looks like? That would help you be the best that you can be at work. And that would demonstrate that they are all about respect and trust. And once you start, because you can have any value up on the wall, but if you don't understand the behaviours that have to be in play that would actually demonstrate that value's truth, right? So, you know, when people say trust is a value, I'm like, well, trust is an outcome. Yes. Trust is an outcome. Yeah. I really think that if you don't have those implementations in any workplace, you're probably not going to be around for long or you're not going to be attracting the right people and just having issues. Correct. Yeah. So this has been a mixture of a podcast, but again, very relevant. Why we say for the podcast as well. exactly exactly exactly I call this episode but um I suppose is there anything that you want to finish off today in relation to either the separation or the leadership part within a business with people going through some heavy stuff just anything you want to finish that we haven't No, I think the main message I would say is, you know, invulnerability that is in sharing where you're at and, you know, letting people know what's happening in your world. For ninety percent of people that will be a really positive experience and they you know the businesses and the leaders that I work with are definitely set up to support that person through because they don't want to lose you and they understand it's difficult and they've probably been through it themselves. It's just about as I always say to people you can't expect someone to do something about it if they don't know about it. Yeah yeah. I like that. And even if they don't open up at first, you know, don't be put off, they might need to warm up or the fact that they just know that there's somebody out there, like maybe that's enough. They can when they're ready, yes. Yeah, exactly. Well, thank you very much for joining me today. We'll pop the PDF or the link that you said before in relation to the self-care stuff. I really like that. And, yeah, thanks for joining me today. Thank you so much for having me. It's been great. Thanks, Stace.
