Okay hello everybody and I'm super excited to do today's podcast with the lovely Vic and today is all about separation and the child care logistics that can come when you're going through a separation but before we start lovely Vic can you please introduce yourself? Well, hello, Miss Stacey from the Stacey M podcast. Thank you so much for having me. I am Victoria Edmund from Big Hearted Education and I predominantly support family daycare educators around Australia. However, this message is relevant for all childcare service types, wherever you may send your children. I definitely will be coming from the position of advocating for the children and and the educators in this particular episode because I think it could be a position that maybe parents haven't thought of. I mean, why would you? Because you aren't childcare educators yourself. But it definitely is something that a lot of you who are going through that separation process will be involved in some form of childcare or another situation. and hopefully this can give you some insight and start to ease the way through a very difficult situation. Yeah, because it's easy for us to know what we know and then we sometimes, because we've done it for so long, we kind of forget that others might not know what we know, like you don't know what you know until you don't know type thing. Exactly. And we've had some good chats about this and I definitely would think it's going to be beneficial for those people Or even if you haven't gone through that separation process, what the childcare element of the separation process could look like. And it's like it should be in the best interest of the child. And that's often forgotten. And I won't get into that rabbit hole. But it's really just making that process happen. it's going to be easy for you but it's really going to be easy for your child as well and I've spoken with the amazing sharon as well in relation to when your child has additional needs so that's a another you know another aspect of it um which obviously free to comment on that you know because additional needs is probably going to look a little bit different to a child that doesn't have additional needs with a handover and whatever. But we've got a few points to have a chat about today. So the first one is parents and whether they mean to do it or don't mean to do it. Let's assume that, you know, they're not meaning to do it. They'll kind of expect an educator to take care And I imagine that would make it pretty uncomfortable. So do you want to just discuss, you know, whether it's from a perspective of the parent knows that they're doing it or they might not know that they're doing it. Maybe you're the only person that they talk to when they're venting everything out. So I suppose the disclosure level of what's going on personally and what to maybe communicate or not communicate with your educator at childcare. Absolutely. So first and foremost, your educator's responsibility is to A, your child and B, all of the other children that are in care at that particular time. Supervision is one of the biggest areas where there are accidents because educators are not supervising adequately and And that can sometimes be because there's a parent who's having a major download with an educator. And that takes our ratio of educators who can be supervising down by one, which puts pressure and stress on everybody else because you're not always going to be able to, and depending on the person that you might be venting or downloading to, that person may not have the confidence to say, well, hang on a second, I'm actually responsible for monitoring this gate right now and I actually can't be talking to you right now. So sometimes what happens is a family will connect with an educator, which is what we encourage, but then that can sometimes feel like there's a friendship there And those professional lines can sometimes get a little bit blurred, which is really very common when you're working with children because you want that person to feel like a part of your life. But parents need to remember. that that educator is actually there doing a job and they aren't just responsible for your child, they are responsible for the other children in care at that time. So that is the very first thing that I would be having a conversation with. Now, most of you who will be attending long daycare settings will actually be walking most likely past the director who's sitting at the front desk or an admin person who's sitting at the front desk on your way in or on your way out in the afternoon or the morning. what I suggest is that you perhaps book a time to speak to that person because that director or admin person is not responsible for children on the floor at the time. They can also take you into an office if it's available to sit down And you can tell them, but be factual. Like the worst thing that happens and it makes educators and staff sometimes really uncomfortable is that one parent can sometimes try to make us take sides. And it's understandable in that circumstance. But what parents need to understand, particularly when there's been two parents involved in the service is is that educators treat all families the same. So you don't see the communication and the connection that educators are having with the other parent because you're not there picking up. So you don't know the relationships that are formed and they are professional when they come from the educator to the other parent. So it puts educators in a really difficult and untenable position when there's one parent who's trying to get people to take sides with them. And sometimes it's very unconscious because you're feeling hurt and things may be happening behind closed doors that are legitimately happening. not okay but bringing that into the child care center is not necessarily the right place to be talking about these kinds of things if it's something that's going to impact the child and the day that that child's going to have so perhaps one of the parents there was a big argument, the children were up at night and, you know, very upset and it was one a.m. before they could go to sleep and you've had to bring the children to care. Absolutely be advising your educators around that because your children are going to need additional support, emotional support, spiritual, physical support during that day at care. So that information is very important to communicate with your educators. Now educators are going to be, depending on the situation, heavily monitoring your children because they know there's an emotional upset that's occurring for that child at that particular time. So they do need to know that stuff is happening but just keep it to the facts without embellishing and going into the story of it. they don't need to know what the argument was about or that, you know, parent A started it or that parent B was slamming doors and, you know, all that kind of stuff. We need to know that the child was up till quite late and will need additional emotional support and will be very, very tired that day. So we are also mandatory reporters. So if you tell us things that happen, we are obligated to report that to the department. So that can work in favour and it can work against. And some people will know that information and utilise it for not good and others will then also know that information and withhold information sharing because they don't want to you know have the ramifications of that so but just just know that when we know that families are going through these kinds of struggles we do keep our eyes on those children and we are looking for signs you know that they need additional support and when things are going bad And your educator may raise that with you and say, oh, you know, I've really noticed that little Johnny's really not himself. He's really clingy or he's acting out. There's some behaviours that I've never noticed in the past. You know, is there anything going on that we need to be aware of? So In saying don't overshare with your educators, there is certainly times where you may feel uncomfortable talking about that because it's a very private event. But your educator cannot provide what your child needs if they don't know what is happening. So there really is a fine line and a fine balance of sharing factual information without going into the story of it yeah and I get the whole relationship thing like my kids were in like long daycare I was the first one at the door in the morning and I was the last one to collect in the afternoon um but you you do build that collect like connection with them like I still talk to my girls daycare teachers and my youngest is eleven like um and yeah it's and this is kind of a similar like the family law matter it's like yep um and even if you weren't going through a separation you know if you drop them off hey she had a bad night probably going to be cranky heads up here you go see you later like I know I had definitely done that like when I was dropping my hands off but in relation to the communication it might be like hi like I'm just letting you know I'm going through A separation, it's early days, we're amicable or we're not amicable or whatever that situation might be. Yeah, little Johnny might be a little bit disrupted because he is going between two houses. So that type of thing. actual stuff yep not he's cheated on me I've kicked him out of the house he's done this he's done that that's the type of information that you probably need to speak to a close family a close family member a friend or a counselor because that's obviously things that need to work through from a personal perspective and it's not like you're trying to be you know, rude or anything, it's like, yep, I can appreciate your, you know, you're in this situation. I'm sorry to hear that. But, yeah, if you're one educated and you've got like five kids there, I'm not sure what the ratio is, but that's your eyes taken off those kids. Exactly. So it's a virginity of care. Exactly. Yeah. Completely get that. Now, what about in relation to, so say they've gone through a settlement and we have orders in relation to the kids, so there's a parenting plan or parenting orders, I would assume you would need a copy of them. So what happens when, well, maybe first of all, if there's no orders in place, what would be the procedure? And then, you know, we'll go to the next step when there is a parenting plan or orders in place, what's a procedure with that? Okay, so when you enrol your child in childcare, you should be providing a birth certificate for that service. Some services don't ask for it, but it definitely should be provided. As well, when you're doing your enrolment forms, you should be putting Parent A and Parent B, both parents. If you don't know Parent B, you're probably not going to be going through a separation. So... But some people will not put the two parents on the enrolment form. If somebody can turn up to the service and provide a birth certificate that has their name on it, we have to let the children go with that person because they're on the birth certificate. So... uh without orders if there are orders in place we need the most up-to-date copy of those orders and then we can follow through with those orders and refuse collection or um you know that parent to be able to come into the service within reason. I am not going to put my educators at risk if someone's having a bit of a meltdown. I have to think of if I'm in a long daycare setting, potentially up to a hundred other children and maybe twenty five staff. If there's someone who's having a mental moment, I am definitely going to be saying take your child because that is the path of least resistance, in which case I would be calling the police immediately to say this is what's happened. There's orders in place. Someone so-and-so has breached the orders. I've had to let the child go because it was safer to do that. You need to, you know, and you would be taking the number plate of the car and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So all of that stuff, we've got not just your child to consider, but we've got, you know, many other children and staff as well. So if there are no orders in place, we have to let that parent, both parents have access whenever they choose to have access. So I had in the past, I had a parent. Now I knew both parents because both parents had been doing pick up and drop off. um and the parent A rang me and said to me parent B is to have no contact parent B has been abusing the child and I'm like oh my goodness that's terrible what's been happening and parent A told me that when parent B has the child parent B is taking the child to McDonald's and that's abusive And I had to say, well, maybe it's less than ideal, but I don't think that constitutes abuse. Secondly, do you have orders in place? And she's like, well, no. Parent A is like, no. And then I had to say, well, I can't stop parent B from doing picking up the child and taking the child and coming and seeing the child or ringing and wanting to talk on the phone to the child. I would use discernment if that happened and it caused major upset, I would use discernment as the educator and be like, oh, they're sleeping or, oh, they're on the toilet or, oh, because I am trying to minimise the disruption to the child in my care at that time. But if that parent came and wanted to see the child, I would have to let them in because they could quite easily go to the Department of Education and complain that we withheld access to their child when they have the legal right to their child. I do not have the legal right to say to a parent, no. yeah so um yeah so if you are wanting to limit access you need to either speak to your ex-partner and hopefully they can you see that what is occurring is causing you know upset to the child and they may stop it or you will need to go through the court process to get orders in place we cannot stop children from seeing their biological parents yeah and kids pick up on that vibe as well like even if they're young and you don't think that they're understanding stuff if you're Oh, they know. If you're cranky, if you're whatever, those kids pick up on that. They know. They know. And they tell us. They tell us everything. Yeah, and it's really sad. My mum said, my daddy did. I just want to cuddle them and say it's okay. I know that when my kids were at daycare, so obviously that's quite a while ago now, we could put emergency contacts down on the form as well. I'm assuming that's still a thing so you could have parents or grandparents or whatever. Yeah, you have to have emergency contacts. So often when there's been a separation, sometimes a parent will repartner. and one partner may be like, I don't want them to pick my kid, blah, blah, blah, blah, same goes. We don't put us in that position. Like sort that out outside of daycare. We don't want parents coming and having barnies and, you know, being really upset and coming to our desk and like yelling at us and being really forceful. I have no right to see my kid. They're not my blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So just really think about the impact that those decisions can have not only on your child but on the educators and the other children that are coming to that care facility as well because that can have a really traumatic impact on educators and children alike. If someone comes and yells at the desk or in the play yard, I've had it before and, you know, it's really confronting and really sometimes challenging to diffuse that situation where we've had to call the police and have people escorted from the premises. And that causes so much drama for us, the amount of paperwork that we've got to do, not just the paperwork side of it, but the counselling side of it that we've got to provide for our staff and the children and the other families. You know, there's some children that have never seen arguments in their lives. Because there's just a different environment within their home life and that is terrifying. And for those families, they have every right to make serious complaints about that. And, you know, you've just got to be thinking about not just your family. But think about the community in which you're involved and the impact that those behaviours can have. So if there's somebody else that could pick up, if you know that your ex-partner is going to have an issue, if there's somebody else that could be an emergency contact, by all means, that would be a better course of action than potentially causing drama. So, yeah, that's something to consider as well. Yeah, it's a super emotional time. Like I always try and tell my clients to react with emotion and I'm not perfect. I do my best trying to not react with emotion, but you're not diffusing a situation either. So if you're still going through that separation, you're going to be making that legal process difficult. harder and it's going to be more strained and it's probably going to get more petty and difficult and your legal costs will go up because of that type of communication or lack of communication and I think if there was any real concern, like if it was, you know, DV or something, I agree. I don't think I'd necessarily consider MACAs as, like, abuse. I can appreciate some people might not want their kids to have it, but... If you went to court for that, a judge probably wouldn't care. But go see a lawyer. So go get those orders in place. If you have a lawyer, get that lawyer to write a letter up. It's probably still not binding because it's obviously not, you know, it hasn't gone through the courts or anything. But, yeah, it's... You don't want to upset your child and especially like my kids were there for like four or five years. If you've got like another four years left to drop your child off, that's going to be a really awkward situation. I was going to say something else. I can't remember what it was then. Oh, I can't think of it. What was it? Yeah, I don't know, be nice. That wasn't what I was going to say. Yeah, I can appreciate it's, yeah, very stressful and, you know, you could be having a bad day as well. The more that you communicate with your ex, I said within reason, if there's DV, then that's a different situation. But there's some parents who have no, they don't have a plane or orders because they're it's amicable so in some situations you might be going through a separation but you might be amicable and you might not have to have orders in relation to to the kids and if you've managed that then you know congratulations um but yeah just be really mindful of you know the people around you I know that's easier said than done um you know but yeah there's you know you don't want to would you have a right so if somebody was coming in here and like yelling at you all the time because you've let little johnny go with the dad or the new partner or something like that do you have a right to withhold service and ask them absolutely absolutely absolutely if I was in a situation where there was a parent that continually came into the space like I get it sometimes things get really heated and in the moment you might like lose your cool because it's the end of the day and you're trying to pick the children up and well and like I've been that mama bear too where it's like Just get in the car, you know, like I've got no space left. Or get out of the car. Yeah, get out of the car, like whatever that may be. Like you're human but if it's a pattern and it's becoming habitual, a billion per cent, I have a duty of care to the other children in care, the other families in care and my team and I would cease enrolment immediately. And just say, don't come back. Yeah, and that will get out to the other daycares, yeah? Like that could affect. Oh, not necessarily. But if there's no, no, not necessarily. There's no little black wall. That might be a bit different. But in a city, I suppose you've got more options, I suppose, but. Yeah, in a small town, that probably would. However, I would imagine that if this person's incapable of managing their emotions, that they would be known that way through the region anyway. You know, it's a really difficult time for parents. It really is because the children pick up on all of the instability and the animosity and it really... it damages the children. Like there's no doubt about the separation. It doesn't matter how amicable it is. It's going to have lasting impacts on the children. I'm a child of divorce. My parents divorced when I was five, you know, and there's a lot of stuff that I'm unpacking now as a forty five year old that comes from that. So and my parents weren't violent or nasty or anything like that. It was a fairly cut and dry boring divorce, you could say. But the impacts of that varied and wide. And I think the thing that parents need to continually come back to is, is this for the highest good of the child? Yes. Like, is what I'm doing causing more harm than what it needs to? And I think what parents in that situation, like from an early childhood educator perspective, someone who's worked with thousands and thousands and thousands of children for nearly two decades now, When there's such a massive impact on the family unit and the structure, the best thing you can do is provide stability for the children. If you pick up your children at five PM every afternoon and you go home and you play for half an hour, and then you start the bedtime dinner routine, do it the same way in the same order every single day. And it might be as boring as batshit for you, but it is going to be the best way to help your children through that process because what it's going to provide for them is they're going to know what's coming next. Oh, mummy or daddy picks me up from kindy and then we go home and we play and we read some books and then we have dinner and then we have a bath and then we go to bed and it's more book reading. And if I could encourage you to do anything through this process to help your children, please make time to let them unwind from preschool. Because I hear it time and again, oh, did so-and-so sleep during the day? And you're like, yep, they had their two-hour sleep. No, they're not going to be in bed till eleven or twelve o'clock tonight and I can't handle that. I want you to really assess your rhythm and the routine that you have when you get home. If you are getting home and then trying to get your kid straight to sleep and you're giving them a tablet and they're watching TV and all that sort of stuff, that is not switching their brain off. It is not helping them to unwind. It's actually winding them up and it's not helping them to transition from preschool to home the best way to do that is to give them connection you are their main person they have been away from you a child who's two or three or four or five eight to twelve hours is a huge time for that age. If you look at, you know, eight to twelve hours as a forty-five-year-old, it's over in the blink of an eye. How long did it take for Santa to come when you were a kid? Forever. Time is... Time is completely different, right? So you've been apart. They've been apart from their person for an extended period of time. And quite often what happens is they will see you. The minute they see you, they drop their bundle. And that is because they've held themselves emotionally and spiritually all day long. And then they see you, you're my safe person, I'm going to let it all go. And that's because they've held on to that all day. So the best thing ever. If you're a five-day-a-week childcare, you times that by like five. That's bang, bang, bang. It's huge. Your educator is spending more awake hours with your child than you are. We definitely believe that. The counterbalance to that is intense connection. And I know for some of you, you're going to come home from the end of the day and just probably want to doom scroll on your phone to regulate your own nervous system. I would sit in the car for ten or fifteen minutes before you go in and pick your children up and regulate your nervous system. Yep. Like do that. If you need to run to do that, go for a run for ten, fifteen, twenty minutes, enough to regulate your nervous system, whatever it is you need to do to show up and be completely and utterly present for your children because particularly, and this goes for all parents across the board, but particularly if you're going through a separation, your children and their security needs is completely shattered and you need to be the person who is going to provide them the stability and the connection so that they feel a modicum of safety now it's worse if you've got one parent that's playing off on the other and being a total douchebag like it's so unfair and it is absolutely heartbreaking in that case you have to double down your efforts You absolutely have to double down your efforts and give those children massive amounts of connection, time. Read books with your children before bed because that's going to help them feel connected to you. You may even fall asleep there for a little bit. but it's going to help them feel that sense of safety and security and it's going to build up that trust that you aren't going anywhere. And over time, you continue to do that right up until they leave the nest. really prioritise that deep seated need for connection that every human being has. And if you can provide that, it doesn't matter if the other parent is being a loo-lilly-lolly, like it doesn't matter what, your children at the end of the day when they become old enough to look back on that period are really going to have a deep connection for you and there's less damage and less repair that you need to do as an adult and a parent. yeah even that like whole routine thing I I did it from when lily so lily just turned thirteen my oldest and I don't know whether I read it someone told me I got told a lot of useless when I had my first child and some I kept and some I got rid of and some are modified But somewhere along the line, I started, so, you know, I'd get her up in the morning. It's like, right, so today is Monday, Tuesday, whatever it is. We're going to get dressed. Mum's going to go out there and we'll have, like, her cup of tea and then we're going to go do the grocery. Like, I planned, like... plan out the day and let them know what was happening I still do that with my kids and they're eleven and thirteen so okay right so and I pick you out from school and today we've got touch training so I'll drop you here and like I'll take you here like and they expect that and they're like eleven and thirteen so it's like all right so today mum and I get my case and we do this so But what that does is that sets up a chain of communication. Yeah. And when you model that as an adult and a parent, it will just be second nature for your children. Yeah. So if you sit on your phone and I see it all the time, I see parents come in to pick their children up, they're on their phone. Like get off your phone. Get off. It's like have you ever gone to dinner and there's people sitting on their phone and you're kind of going, well, I thought we were out to dinner together. Aren't we going to have a conversation? Like your children are desperate for your attention, absolutely desperate. because even though they've been at daycare all day they may be in a room with twenty three other children or if they're a baby they're in a room with potentially seven other babies and two people to meet their needs unless you're in family daycare and you've got one educator for four children which I'm just going to give a little plug Family daycare is by far and away the best option for childcare that there is around ever, full stop. It is one person who is there, particularly for children that are going through separations, there is one person there from the minute they're dropped off till the minute they go. It is the same person every single time. When you go to a long daycare, your child can be exposed to upwards of six people during the day. They have to transition their trust and attachment and security to potentially six other people during the day. Yeah. Like is it any wonder why children struggle? Yeah. It's not. And so if things are starting to look a bit pear-shaped for you, please look for family daycare in your area because that is going to be a level of security that your child's nervous system is going to go, oh, And family daycare educators are regulated under the same regulations, the same laws, the same requirements that we have in long daycare settings. So it's all the same. They get monitored and it's all there. So, I mean, if anybody has seen that horrific story about the guy that was arrested with hundreds and thousands of images and videos, he operated across Queensland, New South Wales and internationally in long daycare settings. He groomed not only the children, he groomed all of the staff. And he was so prolific that he was reported twice before the third report was taken seriously. He groomed the police too. Oh, gosh, wow. So, you know, and I'm not trying to terrify people but I'm saying that, These people will have access to your children wherever. Like they are so underhanded at that stuff. So please don't be thinking that, you know, family daycare is not a safe option because it absolutely is. And you qualify that. You go and you look at their house. And you look at the space they run, you look at the program, look at how they interact with the children and speak to their service provider and, you know, do your due diligence. But if you're looking like things are starting to go pear-shaped or you think, you know, or even if you're just looking for childcare, absolutely family daycare would be what I would be looking at for my own children. mine are twenty three and twenty one now and I'm still in touch with some of our daycare educators from when my son and daughter were going to kindy twenty years ago so that's the power of connection right and children form bonds because they spend so much time with these educators and it's really vital that you are aware of who's with your children but the biggest thing is to provide a stable environment where there's deep connection between you and your children because they are craving that. And no phones, no devices, just be with your children because it takes less time when they are filled up when you can fill them up emotionally, it takes quicker and quicker. It's less and less and less time the more you do it. So if you need to doom scroll, because that's one way that I use to regulate my nervous system. If I've been working really hard on the computer, I'll go and take a half-hour break and doom scroll because it just makes me go to have nothing in my brain, right? I use that as a tool and I totally understand how parents can use that too, but don't do it in front of your kids all day, every day. If your children are annoying you, it's because they need something from you. yeah so yeah yeah I think we're gonna have to do a separate podcast if you haven't done already in the benefits of family daycare um oh yeah I can talk all day about that the next one um so there's a few more points I'm conscious of the time we're about forty minutes but okay um you know sometimes in orders if People don't want to know where people live or there's issues or whatever. You know, the good old Maccas car park can be a handover spot. Sometimes childcare centres can be the same. Do you have anything to comment on just in relation to the daycare centre being the port of changeover, I suppose, compared to Maccas or something? Yeah. I think that's a really beautiful transition, especially if there is animosity between the two partners or parents, ex-partners. If there's animosity there, just remove it. Remove the chance of seeing each other. right you can communicate anything you need to communicate via text or phone call whatever floats your boat whatever's going to work for you but drop off in the morning at preschool and then the other parent can pick up in the afternoon If that works, sometimes the timing isn't going to work, but if that works, that's definitely a suitable scenario and it's an easier transition for the children because it's likely something that happened in the past anyway. Usually parent A would drop off because parent B worked early in the morning and parent B finished before parent A. So parent B would pick up in the afternoon. So that keeps things the same. in terms of those transitions that the children need and children a hundred percent need transitions they need transition so if you've got a if you are going to do a handover you make sure you tell that child you know you're going to um daddy's this afternoon and then you're going to stay with daddy for a couple of days and mommy's going to miss you but she's going to have a big rest while you're gone so that she is going to be so ready to play with you when you come home you're going to have the best time with daddy and it's going to be so wonderful and be positive about everything because if you're anxious about things and it's the same when you start child care if you're anxious and you don't feel safe doing what you're doing the children are going to pick up on it and the children it all you're going to do when you do this Okay, mummy's going to go now. Bye-bye-bye. And the child starts to cry. Oh, one more kiss, one more kiss. And you pick them up and it's another kiss. Okay, mummy's going to go. Bye-bye-bye. And then, oh, one more kiss, one more. And it becomes this drawn-out event. All that does is increases your child's anxiety levels. It makes it harder to go. You are better off to just go suck it up because this isn't about you. It's about your child. Suck it up. Be positive. You're going to have a great time. I'm just going to see you when you get back. Have a beautiful day. I'm going to miss you. See you. Go. leave then don't cry in your car don't cry in your car like be all happy and positive because your child needs you to give that message that what's about to happen is going to be safe whether that be at the mackers car park Or whether that be through a daycare service or maybe there's a mediator that you do the handover with. Like however it works, it's no longer about you when it gets to that point. It is absolutely about your children and minimising the stress and the overwhelm and the upset that your children could feel. Yeah, and it's setting them up for the day as well. Like if you wake up and you stub your toe and then your day kind of like just spirals from that similar to then with your child starting anxious, cranky, whatever. Yeah. That's probably going to dictate their day. And if that's happening on a daily basis, like if they're at childcare five days a week, because I know mine were, you know, that's you're piling, you know, stuff on top of one another for days and weeks and then months. You're going to have more issues down the track trying to deal with that than trying to have that positive impact. you know, outlook at the start and what you said before of, you know, mummy's going to miss you but you're going to have a great time at dad's or vice versa, mums and mums, you know, you're not biased towards anything. But if you go, oh, so you're going to have to go to your dad's this afternoon and, like, if you kind of put the other person down, going to pick up on that and you know when they grow older they're probably going to put two and two together or whatever so even if you might not agree or can't stand your ex or whatever it is to go hey like I you know you're gonna have a great time with dad um I think he's gonna do this with you and he'll drop you off here or I'll pick you up here and you know I love you call me if you need me like make that positive don't go oh okay well yeah See, I can remember being nine or ten and my dad sitting me down with his ledger book and saying, see, I paid your mother and now she's asking me for more. Like I shouldn't have to do this. Yeah. Like and he was just trying to help me see that he was doing the best he could. But at the same time, what am I as a nine or ten-year-old supposed to do with that information? It's none of my business. It is absolutely none of my business. And I see parents do it and they take the magic of childhood away from their children. There's no other way to put it. I was just trying to work out, oh, you can't say that. I am going to say it. I'm going to say it because you've damaged your children during a divorce and Now, whether it's the best thing, which in some cases it's a hundred percent the best thing for partners to separate because it's way more toxic to stay there. But in that process, you've, you've a hundred percent damaged your children, right? So you've got to be aware that the things that you do from there matter, right? Do not share things that your children do not need to know about. I hear it all the time. One parent will absolutely bag the other parent out. Hold the higher ground. I don't care what it costs you because at that point it's not actually about you. It's about the children. Hold the higher ground. Oh, they said that about me. It's really sad that they, you know, think that kind of thing. You know that I love you and it doesn't matter what happens, I'm always going to love you. And guess what? I love them too. I really do. Right now they're just hurting and sometimes, you know, when you and your brother play and he gets angry at you and he'll yell and he sometimes even, you know, will smash your tower down. That's because he's actually feeling really awful inside. But it's okay. You still can love him. and I still love I still love that person too I just know that they're really sad right now you know and you have to put things into context that children are going to understand don't burst their childhood bubble even more it's really important yeah I like the magic I like that need to trademark that I think Yeah, magic of childhood. What else did we have here? We wanted to talk about CCS too because sometimes during this process, some families might do week on, week off. Just for those that might know the lingo. Oh, so childcare... something child care subsidy cc like yeah it's a rebate like thing yeah it's it's what the government will pay you depending on what your income is and you have eligibility hours and all that sort of stuff you also get forty five days worth of absences a year that they will pay for as well so what will happen in a service setting sometimes and it can work really beautifully is that the two parents, even though they're separated, will apply for CCS and have the enrolment for their child. So they might be week on, week on or two on, two on, whatever it is. Are they enrolments each for their child? Yes, they each have their own enrolment and that enrolment then books children You know, if it's week on, that parent A will have the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and parent B on week one, parent B will have Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, week two. So that means you're responsible for your own fees. There's none of this, well, you know, they went on holidays and I'm having to pay, you know, because my child's gone away on holidays and that can cause animosity and disruption and disagreement. Sorry? Yeah. I had that the other week actually that, yeah, someone was cranky that I had to pay a daycare fee when the other partner had taken them on holidays. I'm like, oh, gosh, is that where we're at? Well, it can be expensive. It can be expensive. And, you know, if someone's taking them away for two weeks and you steal a thousand dollars out of pocket, like, It can be unfair. So it really sort of only works if there's a shared agreement. Yes. So, you know, and parents might think about that if that's not going to happen and it's not able to happen. When you're putting orders in place, you could potentially ask the court to put that in place that if that parent says, takes the child away for two weeks, that they are responsible for also paying the childcare fees as well. I don't know how that will flow, but that would be something to consider. So, yeah, definitely. But you can definitely do that. It just requires that both parties go to approach Centrelink separately and just explain to them that they're a separated couple and you want to have the child registered under you for CCS childcare benefits or subsidy so that you can enroll that child yourself. So then there's two enrollments and it's fair and even and the service will discuss payments and things regarded whenever you know between the two of you so you'll get your own invoice that you are responsible for paying and vice versa Yeah, I think that's a super good idea, especially if someone's transferring a fund to another bank account, you know, because you're paying half-half or whatever in the case where, you know, I think it was actually the child was away for like half the afternoon or something and that was where the issue caused, well, I'll just pay for a day. Half the afternoon? It was something kind of... I'm not trying to sound inconsiderate. It would start to make it a little bit petty. We're like, oh, okay, you can kind of get your arms a bit. And that's what helps, I suppose, if you get the bonus of experience, family law lawyer or even a lawyer that's a parent knowing all the extra stuff in relation to the experience. I don't think I knew about the two separate enrolments, so that would be something that would just be nice and clean, I think. And so, you know, if payments miss, you're yelling at yourself type, you know, thing that was on your week or whatever. And obviously the logistics would be worked out. with the childcare centre as a relation to who's on what day or what week or anything. Look, and one parent may be earning significantly more than the other two, and in which case the CCS eligibility will be different depending on what the income is. So if one is only working part-time, then the CCS that's going to be paid to that person is going to be significantly more than someone who's on a hundred and fifty thousand. So and that's fair and equitable. Yeah. Do you still get the same amount of days? So I know I used to cop out. It's kind of about mid-year. I think I'd cap out in like my payments and I was paying like full freight, which was I think it was around like eight hundred bucks a tick. Like it was super expensive. If you have a certain enrolment, do you have the day split or you still have whatever the days are? So you're more likely going to get the full year's worth. Yeah. Because you're not having it every week or whatever. and you still get the same amount of um actually I'm not a hundred percent sure on the absences I think the absences might accumulate across both I don't know I like it's not something that we've experienced within our business someone running out of absences when there's been a separate So they would just need to chat with Centrelink about that, yeah, whether their absences accumulate for the child or if it's across the different enrolments. So, yeah. I think that's just, yeah, I like that idea. I think it's just a cleaner way to do that. That was pretty well everything we had on our list. Is there anything that you would like to finish with? So we've had a pretty good chat about, you know, trying not to make educators, well, don't make educators pick sides because it's not going to work. In relation to collection of the kids and, you know, with parenting plans and orders and no plans, you know, what can happen. The oversharing side of things can appreciate as, you know, probably being there myself, oh, I'm tired, she was up at night or whatever. If you need that support, engage a family friend or a friend or a counsellor or something like that to help you. um the handover at child care could be a good spot so if you can't stand being with your ex at handover that could be a really nice option to say for the mackers car park um how to support the kids through the the separation so the connection put your phone down try and stick to their routine and things like that which you should be doing regardless of whether you're going through a separation but probably more so if you are The CCS enrolments, is there anything else that you would like to mention before we close off? No, I think we've covered quite a lot of territory this afternoon. I think, too, the thing that I would suggest to families that are going through this process is have a safe person for your children, too. So that it could be a really close friend or a sibling of yours, the parent or a grandparent, but somewhere where your children and these people should have shared values to you because particularly as your children get older, I obviously work in the early childhood realm, but as your children get older, they're going to need someone who's going, they can talk to who is not you. Because at some point or another, you are going to be public enemy number one. And it's like even for families that are not going through separation, at some point your kid's going to hate you because you are so uncool. Yeah, and you just don't get it. You don't understand me, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So what you want to do is set up an auntie or an uncle, quote unquote, and it could be a friend, right, that they have a shared value system to you so that when your child actually goes and speaks to them and approaches them, they're going to tell them the same thing you would tell them. And you actually can trust that that person can hold your child's confidence and without telling you everything that's going on for them but you have ultimate trust that they are telling your child what you would tell them anyway and that if anything serious serious serious comes apart that person's going to have the awareness to be able to share that with you and let you know the down low I would a hundred million percent suggest that that be something every single parent thinks about because it's that they aren't going to talk to you at some point but they need someone to talk to the last thing you want is for them to go to their peers and talk to their peers about stuff because their peers are just as batshit crazy as what they are at that point And they don't have the life experience or the skills or the knowledge to be able to give good advice. So you want your children to have a safe place where they can land that isn't you. So that would be something that I would really recommend. Yeah, I know my girls have that. Like back in the days where I couldn't make certain things at school, it's like, well, I had my school mum with me today because you couldn't make it or like whatever it is. And they're still close like to, you know, like they're friends' mums and stuff. and things like that, which is really good and definitely encouraging. As you said, like the same values I know that if they went to a particular person that I know that she's going to say the same thing I'm going to say type thing. So I'm definitely better advice in Googling something called going to UPs, especially in those teen years. So wonderful. Terrible idea. I'm only just going to be thirteen, so I'll let you know how it goes. Well, I'm through that side and I'm through the other side. I was actually a cool mum for a lot of the time because I'm cool. You're not embarrassed with me yet, but I'm sure something will happen. Oh, I purposefully embarrassed my children. I purposefully embarrassed my children. And in front of their friends, like their friends loved me because they would come here and I would feed them. And I would talk to them on the level, you know. I was quite young when I had my children. So, you know, I was twenty-one when I had my son. So there wasn't that massive an age gap. And I can bro him just as much as he broed me. So, you know, I mean, it all comes down to your relationships. The best thing that I ever did was jump on my kids in the morning or at night and lick their faces. Yeah. It was just, you know, they hated it but they also loved it at the same time. And they knew that it was coming. It was like a routine that you would go lick their faces like every day. Yeah, yeah. But there's no getting away when your old lady pins you to the bed and is just licking your face. You know, you have fun. Just, you know, bring some joy and fun to your children too. And tickle monsters are great for the early childhood because it allows connection. But if they say no, stop, you know. But tickle monsters are great because it allows for that joy and that fun and that connection and it brings the energy up and then you can, oh, let's get a book and you bring that energy down again. Yeah. They can break the cycle of being cranky or anxious or something as well because their mind's taken off, you know, being upset or whatever that might be as well. So just having that disconnect with, you know, perhaps a not so good mood. But thank you very much for that. I think we definitely have to do like a pro family daycare video Oh, yeah. Podcast. We'll have to plan that next month. But thank you so much, Vic, for joining me today. We'll have Vic's details down the bottom so you can reach out to Vic directly. Even if you're a family daycare person or wants to get into it, Vic is definitely the person that you need to speak to. She is super passionate about all things kids and family daycare. So thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time. Thank you. Thanks, Vic. No worries.
